Alon Shabo: CBD Bringing You Closer to Sleep Zen [OPP 164]

This week, I talked to Alon Shabo, founder of Sabaidee, a brand new disruptive company taking the CBD oil industry by transparency.  This is the future of medicine. Sabaidee not only wants to help heal through the power of cannabis, they partner with a 501(c)(3) charity to help plant trees for every unit sold.

CBD helps you sleep, relax your muscles.  And after talking with Alon, you'll be a sleep zealot like us as well since sleep makes EVERYTHING more optimal.

P.S. We’re giving away a Halo Sport (a $500 value)!  CLICK HERE TO ENTER 

P.P.S The first 20 listeners to use promo code MAC15 at gets 15% off their next purchase.

P.P.P.S. Alon was nice enough to hook everyone up with a promo code at using NS20 at checkout.


  • Alon Shabo’s Stack
  • Alon’s intro to CBD
  • What is it like using CBD oil?
  • How did you create Sabaidee
  • The difference between Sabaidee and other CBD oils.
  • Sean’s experience with Sabaidee
  • CBD Success Stories
  • Why isn’t everyone using CBD?
  • Who is CBD and is not for?
  • What hacks do you use for sleep?
  • Sabaidee and Advocacy work
  • Common CBD misconceptions
  • Daily Applications of CBD
  • How do you educate people about CBD?
  • CBD legality and accessibility.
  • The future of the cannabis industry.
  • How long does it take to kick in?
  • How does Sabaidee reach customers?
  • How we can push the cannabis industry forward?
  • Future of CBD oil.


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OPP 164 Transcript

Sean McCormick: You're listening to The Optimal Performance Podcast. The OPP is brought to you by Natural Stacks, makers of 100% natural and open source supplements designed to help you live optimal. For more information on how to build optimal mental and physical performance into your life, go to

As always, listeners of The OPP receive 15% off with the code mac15, me, Seany Mac. Instagram, it's TheMysticMac. And that's 15% off your first order. With each of these times, I'm just going to tell you what sort of products I use, because I actually take a ton of Natural Stacks products, and today I'm going to talk about curcumin.

The research on curcumin is ... there's a ton of it, and it supports cellular health. As your cells age, they get wear and tear, and they start to break down. That lowers your level of performance. Curcumin has been shown to support healthy joint function. It maintains healthy brain function and cognitive aging. It's good for inflammation. It's just one of those things that you should be taking every day, and I do. That's the one I'm going to talk about for today. Again, use that mac15, M-A-C 15, for 15% off your first order.

One more little piece of housekeeping before we jump into the episode. For those of you that listened last week, you know that we're giving away the Halo Sport headset. The Halo Sport headset is the world's first and only neurostimulator to accelerate improvements in athletic performance and strength. This is a device that looks like headphones, that sends signals to your motor cortex that allows you to train better.

There are NFL athletes, there are Olympic athletes, and all sort of people, musicians especially, too, to learn that sort of fine motor skills in a more efficient way so that you can perform at your highest level. I've been using it for yoga recently. I really dig it. We're giving one away. It's super easy. Click in the description and enter your name to win the Halo Sport. Every time you share this contest, we also enter your name again. Halo Sport. It's a really cool product, and I know that you guys are going to dig it.

In this week's episode, we talk with Alon Shabo. I just got done having the conversation with him, and it was pretty cool. It was wide-ranging. Alon is the founder of SabaiDee, and SabaiDee makes CBD extracts. This is a tincture dropper that you put under your tongue sublingually to absorb CBD. For those of you who are maybe living in Colorado or Washington, California, or any of the other states where not only medicinal but also recreational cannabis is available, this is the future of medicine. This really is.

The company SabaiDee stands for not only helping heal people in a natural way through the powerful forces of cannabis, but also they give back and they partner with a 501(c)(3) to help plant trees, too. It's a really wide-ranging conversation about the benefits, how it's used. For a lot of people, this is going to be a game changer for your sleep. This will help you sleep. GABA does a really good job of it. This does, too. CBD is to help relax your muscles, help you deal with pain, help you relax in general, and get a better night's sleep.

It's a super awesome informational episode, and Alon was nice enough to hook you guys up with 20% off your first bottle of Good Vibes, which is the name of the CBD tincture, sublingual dropper. And the way that you do that is go to getsabaidee, SabaiDee is S-A-B-A-I-D-E-E, for your first bottle of CBD extract. It's 20% off of the list price of 44 bucks. I'm telling you, it's worth every dollar. If you're not sleeping very well, you've got to try this stuff, because it's awesome. Take advantage of this special offer and go to NS20.

You're listening to the Optimal Performance Podcast, and I'm your host, Sean McCormick. It's The OPP. I'm a performance coach, a wellness entrepreneur, a blogger, a speaker, a biohacker, and it's my privilege to bring to you the leading experts in the field of performance. Let's dig right in.

Alon Shabo: Oh, thanks for having me, man.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. One of the questions I'd like to start by asking is what have you eaten today? What time is it right now, and what have you eaten today or what supplements have you taken?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, it's 10:23 a.m., and I have eaten nothing except for my coffee, and this is my third coffee. I put a little bit of coconut oil in it to kind of break the fast, I guess, and yeah, I'm going to have some bone broth around 1:00 p.m. and then go exercise, and then eat some real food, and then train in the evening.

Sean McCormick: Nice. Very nice. So you have two cups of coffee just black before you jump into the coconut oil?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, a little bit of cinnamon, too.

Sean McCormick: Nice. Tell us a little bit about ... Let me tell you how excited I am to talk to you, because we've spoken before, and I am a giant proponent and advocate for cannabis, and I have been for a long time. When we spoke before, I told you that I grew up here in Seattle where we had access to the finest ... I mean, the highest quality cannabis in the world. It was basically Vancouver and Amsterdam, and that could probably be argued here or there.

But since I was in high school, the BC bud was coming down to the Seattle area, and so I have been experienced and exposed to cannabis and cannabis products for a long time. Because I'm in the alternative health and wellness universe, and I believe in preventative health and supplementation, obviously, I'm really excited to dig into the CBD oil, because I believe in it so strongly, and so I'm over here real excited to have you.

Tell us a little bit about how you went from personal training and writing into cannabis oil.

Alon Shabo: Okay. I'm not new to cannabis at all. I like cannabis. I think it has the potential to help a lot of people. But a few years ago, my stepmother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she was going through chemotherapy and all this, and I saw the pain she was going through, and the suffering. Someone recommended to her CBD oil, so she brought this product home. I knew what marijuana was. I dabbled as a kid. I still smoke, whatever. But the CBD oil was different. Hers was a pretty strong dose of CBD. There was no THC in it. I saw how it was helping her.

I started experimenting with the product, and I'm a pretty healthy guy, but the number one thing I experienced with that was my sleep was way deeper, way better. I was waking up with more energy, and for me that's kind of the foundation of good health. Everything else is optimization, but if your sleep isn't awesome, that's your body hitting the reset button, and I mean, there's like over 17,000 studies on how awesome sleep is. I'm not going to dabble into everything, but every organ in your body, especially your brain, benefits from sleep, and when you neglect that, you're prone for psychiatric diseases.

I think part of the reason why we're seeing anxiety, depression, all this shit in the West is so high right now is because sleep is being deprioritized. People are trading, quote unquote, productivity and sacrificing their sleep. Our circadian rhythms are all messed up because of light, and yeah, because of that, I think people are sick. I think public education has failed on the importance of sleep.

Anyway, back to the CBD oil. It has so many benefits, but for me personally, I felt the sleep, and I saw it as potential to help people sleep better, which is pretty much the foundation of everything, like I just said. I looked a bit more into the industry and I found out it was completely unregulated, probably worse than the supplement industry, by the way which is why I love what you guys are doing in Natural Stacks.

Part of the inspiration in starting this company is being a good guy in a pretty crazy space, yeah, a completely unregulated space. I saw an opportunity there to source the best product and bring it to people and educate them properly. That's kind of the origin story.

Sean McCormick: Do you remember the first time that you tried the CBD oil? Do you remember the effect? Do you remember what it felt like to wake up having slept really well?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, absolutely. It's the feeling when you wake up naturally and you're full of energy, like getting out of bed isn't a grind. Even for me, a healthy guy who prioritizes sleep, I don't sleep amazing every night. Obviously, I'm a human. But yeah, the CBD oil, it helps. I've been researching it a bit. It's kind of considered a stimulant, so it doesn't act like a sleeping pill. It doesn't knock you out. But what it does is it helps alleviate other symptoms that may be keeping you up, such as anxiety, racing thoughts, pain, things like that.

Sean McCormick: Really?

Alon Shabo: It's quite interesting, yeah. CBD's considered a stimulant, I mean, according to the literature. All the research is pretty new. I mean, in medical school they don't even talk about the endocannabinoid system, so I mean, that mixed with all the propaganda against marijuana, that's why we're probably years away from it being more adopted, especially by medical professionals who are the authority on what's good for you. But yeah.

Sean McCormick: That fascinates me, and it's funny, because you take this. It's not knocking you out. It's not putting you down. It's not knocking you out and putting you to sleep, but what it is doing is working on all the other things that could keep you awake, that could disrupt your sleep. I think that's really interesting.

We could go so many different directions with this, because you're right, we have absolutely relegated sleep importance. If you think about sleep experts or people who are focusing on sleep ... I think Ariana Huffington just wrote a book last year about sleep. Did you check that one out at all?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. Yeah, I did.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, and she's just-

Alon Shabo: One of the hotel rooms I was staying at had it on the table. It was pretty cool.

Sean McCormick: Interesting. So you try this product. Your stepmom gets it. You try it. She gets it for her recovery. You see it affect your sleep, and you're immediately, what, just like, "Oh, my gosh, this is awesome. I really like this." You dig in. You start to do a bunch of research. I can just sort of picture ... because I've gone through this before, too.

You stay up. You do a bunch of research. You figure out. You learn all the ins and outs. You realize that there's this gaping hole. There's lack of accountability and transparency. You're like, "You know what? I could do this. Why don't I just go do this? Why don't I figure this thing out and create the best possible product that I can?" THat's how every good business starts, I think.

The other thing that I think is really interesting is that we are drawn to the businesses that we find satisfies a personal need of ours, right? And for someone like yourself who's really fit and works in the fitness industry and values sleep, it makes sense that you would gravitate to a product that you saw was effective.

Tell us a little bit about the product itself. Tell us a little bit about SabaiDee. Explain the name. Explain where it's made. We're going to need to record probably four or five different episodes together to really unpack this whole thing, but I don't want to go over, and I want to drill down on the actual quality of the product and how it works and all that stuff. Explain how you created SabaiDee.

Alon Shabo: All right. The name, it's actually a funny story. We had another company. It was called [OmBiotics 00:13:09], actually, but couple months in we ran into some trademark issues that a lawyer told me would be a big problem down the line, so we scrapped the name. I was kind of stressed out and pissed off, because I spent a bunch of money on design assets and things like that. I went to get a Thai massage, which is kind of like a weekly ritual. It's kind of like a deep tissue massage and some stretching.

After the massage, I imagined the name SabaiDee, which is actually a Thai word which means to feel tranquil, to feel soothed, to be happy, to be content. That was pretty funny. Like most things, the solution usually comes in your sleep. Sleep is like a great problem solver. Even Shakespeare said sleep is the chief nourisher in life's feast.

Sean McCormick: I'm looking at the label. I'm holding a bottle. I actually just did a dropperful under the tongue. Hold for 60 seconds and then swallow. Then you have made with organic hemp, 100% natural product. That's like of course. Of course it should be that. Of course it should be made with organic hemp. Of course it should be 100% natural product. But even just seeing that is like, "Oh, okay. That's reassuring. They're doing this right."

Explain the difference between a pure hemp extract and the cannabis plant and cannabis stuff.

Alon Shabo: The cannabis plant, I mean, it could refer to marijuana or hemp. They're the same. We do our stuff from hemp. Our farmers, they cloned this breed after I think it was like 15 or 20 years of just cross breeding. They have the highest CBD hemp plant. The hemp's organically grown in Colorado. They take it to an extraction facility. Now, in that plant there's a ton of cannabinoids, over 100 that are documented. THC and CBD are the most known ones. THC is what gives you the psychoactive kind of "I'm high" effect, and CBD is more of the anti-psychosis, pain, more of the medicinal stuff.

Now, for some people, they need both. They call that the entourage effect. It's the THC and CBD interacting for everything. But there's a lot of people who also do not want THC for many reasons, whether that's a drug test or just the psychoactive effects of THC make them a little wild. In that plant, we extract all the CBD out, and THC and unwanted elements are out. There's also a lot of plant terpenes, which are things that help support the CBD. They have a lot of different effects. These are naturally found in the plant and they help support the cannabinoids. They work with them to produce that medicinal effect.

Each terpene kind of does something different, but you can think of them as supporting the main cannabinoid. In the industry there's a difference between CBD isolates, which is just pure CBD, and full spectrum extracts, which contain terpenes and other things.

Sean McCormick: Got it. Okay. Yeah, that's a distinction. Can you say that again, just to clarify the difference?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. The difference between CBD isolates is a product that's just strictly CBD, and full spectrum contains terpenes. Some full spectrums also contain THC. Now, they call this the entourage effect. It's all the elements of the plant working together. For example, most of these terpenes that are naturally found in the plant, they help support the CBD.

Sean McCormick: Got it, so that you could use it, so it's more effective. The name of the product is called Good Vibes, which just seeing the label, it's like, "Oh, okay. I get it."

Alon Shabo: Yeah, absolutely.

Sean McCormick: Like I said, I've been taking it for the last couple of nights in a row. I sleep really well anyway. It's a talent I've had for a long, long time. I put my head on the pillow and literally five or 10 minutes later I'm out, and I don't wake up until my four-year-old walks into the room at 6:30. But what I found is, just like you mentioned, is that the last couple of mornings I've woken up and felt really good, like Saturday morning sleeping in good. That is priceless. That is such an amazing feeling, and it would be interesting to test, to track sleep with the product, without the product, with the product, to track how much REM sleep am I getting, how many sleep cycles am I getting into.

Shake well before each use. Use one to three times daily as needed. Place under the tongue. Hold for 60 seconds and then swallow. Keep at room temperature. For those of you who have never tried a CBD product, there's no psychoactive effect. There's no high. There's no stoney. There's no nothing. It is really a bodily sensation. It's a feeling of relaxation. It's a feeling of ease that comes without the sort of paranoia or mental stipulation that you may remember from smoking stuff in college, or maybe you're a cannabis user. There's nothing like that in the CBDs, and so you just get this good body relaxation that apparently helps you sleep.

Tell a little bit about how you use it. When do you use it? Do you use it every night? How much? How often? Any stories of people in your life that you've seen use it to any sort of specific effect? Can I cook with it? Do I have to put it under the tongue? Can it put it in a smoothie? All that stuff. How's it used?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, you can definitely put it in a smoothie. I put it in my coffee sometimes as needed. This morning, no. I take it as needed, so if I'm kind of feeling a little bit anxiety or a little stress, I take it. That's how I recommend people take it, too. It's kind of an as-needed thing. I take it before bed most nights, take about two drops and just relax.

The best thing that ever happened to me was my mom got off her sleeping pills because of CBD. And her, like most Americans, I don't know what the stat is, one in six or something crazy, they're on all these psychiatric meds, and they just carry a host of fucked up side effects. That's part of our mission here, too. I can't state it too publicly because I don't want to piss off anyone at big pharma. Those are the true gangsters of America. They're probably worse than a Mexican cartel, but yeah, that's a big fuel in our mission, is actually helping Americans get off it and do something more natural.

It's crazy. A lot of things are coming out as people are kicking the opioid addiction with CBD. That's becoming more and more common, and I hope that gets widely accepted soon.

Sean McCormick: I could speak from experience with people in my life that have been able to get off antianxiety medications and muscle relaxers, because this does both. This helps you feel more at ease in a natural way. What do you think is the biggest thing standing in the way of ... because I sort of picture the baby boomers' generation as a massive audience of population of people that have grown up with the demonization of marijuana. You and I both probably experienced the DARE program. But our parents, they grew up thinking that reefer made you crazy. They grew up thinking that marijuana is the same thing as heroin. They grew up feeling like ... And the narrative was to demonize and to marginalize and to sensationalize the use of cannabis.

What do you think is standing in the way of just the lid being blown off, where everybody is using this in an optimized way to live a better life, and get better sleep, and have better bodily comfort?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. I mean, we're heading in that direction. I'm seeing it getting more widely accepted, and even in super kind of conservative states like Idaho, for example, they're passing bills to try to legalize this stuff. We're definitely going in that direction, but yeah, like you said, the decades of propaganda really took their toll. It's a matter of authority. Once this stuff gets federally legalized, which I think it will in the next few years ... I mean, I'm betting on that. I'm in this space.

Once that happens, once medical professionals, which are ... those are the authorities, right? We have a shift kind of consciousness today where people question things. This is more of our generation. People question things. They seek their own education. But if you're talking about boomers, someone in a lab coat is an authority.

Sean McCormick: Right.

Alon Shabo: I mean, yeah, doctors don't really ... some do, but the majority don't, because medical school doesn't even talk about the endocannabinoid system, and that's what CBD does. It just helps that system. And that's like, what is it? It's like your body's way to regulate itself. It's your natural healing mechanism, and that governs functions in your brain, your reaction to pain, everything.

Yeah, I mean, that's a top-down thing. I think once the government says it's okay, and once doctors say it's okay, then everyone else hops on board. But for now, that's our mission. It's kind of be like, "Hey, give this a try and see how you feel."

Sean McCormick: Yeah. It's a natural product that you can take every night if you want that will help you sleep, that you won't get high from. Reminding people over and over and over, you're not going to get high from this. You're not going to feel spacey. You're going to feel relaxed, and it's because it's working, because there's no THC in it.

Do you think that this product is for everybody? I mean, obviously-

Alon Shabo: No.

Sean McCormick: Okay.

Alon Shabo: No, I don't. No. I've had customers even report some weird side effects to me. For example, someone took it for sleep, and like I said, it's a stimulant. It's really interesting, because the results I've seen, and I'm speaking just with my own customer base, have been so variable. People are taking it for different reasons. I have a guy with anger problems taking it. That made me smile. He's like, "Hey, my kids like to be around me." I'm like, "Fuck, yeah." That's awesome to hear.

No, I think everyone, if they're seeking relief, should try it, but it's definitely not for everyone because some people do have weird reactions to it.

Sean McCormick: Any other examples of women who are pregnant, or people who are on SSRIs or anything like that?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, it does mix weird with some drugs, especially if you're taking sleeping pills and stuff like that. So that's one. Pregnant women, the research is not conclusive, and I don't recommend pregnant people try this, just because I don't know. I'm not in a position to play doctor, either. But yeah, those are the main two things. Another group that's really seeing benefit out of this is PTSD people.

Sean McCormick: Really? Tell me more about that.

Alon Shabo: I have a customer who told me his dreams are less violent and they're actually happier, and he's waking up better, someone just plagued by terrible dreams.

Sean McCormick: Wow. So it's actually affecting their mental states while they sleep, huh?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. I mean, it's like before bed, it reduces your anxiety or racing thoughts or things like that. Like I said, it's not a sleeping pill. It just helps the symptoms that may interfere with your sleep. This stuff isn't a magic pill. It should be taken as part of a wellness routine.

Sean McCormick: Right, right. This shouldn't be the only thing that you're doing to get good sleep.

Alon Shabo: Yeah.

Sean McCormick: Speaking of that, do you do any sort of like biohacks or anything for sleep? Do you have a Chilly Pad or a grounding mat, or do you take cold showers before you sleep, any stuff like that?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, definitely. I definitely lower my body temperature before I sleep, and sleep in a cool room, but I don't know, my number one biohack is the sun, right? Light is the number one regulator of sleep. So first thing in the morning, I'm sun gazing. My brain's like, "Okay." You have this thing in your brain called adenosine, I believe it's called, which is the receptor that makes you tired, and what caffeine does is hops onto the same receptor and it kind of mutes the adenosine.

But from the minute you wake up, you're accumulating adenosine, adenosine, adenosine. And then the sun is like reset time, end of the night, darkness, melatonin. So my ritual's all about light, so I don't know, two, three hours before bed, I'm like, pure darkness, maybe a candlelit house.

Sean McCormick: Really?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, definitely. A little salt crystal.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, man.

Alon Shabo: Just try to lower the lights, and then that's it, man. I'm winding down. I try to stay away from my devices past 8:00 p.m., airplane mode, no more computer. Even if it's a pressing email, it can wait. I'm reading on my Kindle with blue light, some light fiction. I'm just tuning out. It's like a new day. It's time to reset.

That's been a big thing for me, especially when I run into trouble in life. I'm like, "You know what? Just a good night of sleep will solve everything." I wake up fired up, usually with a solution, or especially if I feel like shit, a good night of sleep, it's like the highest god. That's the fuel behind this business. Yeah. There's definitely a failing in public education about sleep.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Well, we glorify overworking. We glorify the grind, the hustle. And that's fine. Work hard. That's great. But also take care of yourself, also take care of your sleep, and your food, and your nutrition, and the love in your life. That's really cool to hear. I mean, you're really living the lifestyle that you're promoting, too. I mean, to turn off the lights in your house, and to switch to airplane mode and read for an hour or two before sleep is what we all should be doing, and throwing on some blue blockers in the evening time, if you really do have to look at a screen.

But it's about lifestyle management, and I think that the listeners of this podcast can really appreciate that goal of managing your lifestyle, to have discipline around the things that serve your higher purpose, that make you perform at the higher level. Sleep is such a pivotal thing. It's like why wouldn't you try a tincture that tastes good? I mean, it's cool mint, right? It's this light oil. It's this light coconut oil. It tastes good. It doesn't have a strong, strong flavor. Why wouldn't you try that in the evening time?

Why wouldn't you experiment with the PreBiotic+ that we carry at Natural Stacks, which tastes like cinnamon and Christmas? You stir it up at night and you drink it as you're starting to wind down for the night. Why wouldn't we all take a little bit more time and energy to make sure that we're getting the sort of sleep that we need?

Tell us a little bit about your guys' partnership with the 501(c)(3) and the sort of advocacy piece of your guys' company.

Alon Shabo: Yeah, man. We work with a charity called One Tree Planted. They're our USA connect. But what they do is they find reforestation partners around the world, and right now we're focused on North America and South America. Every bottle we sell enables us to make a donation to our partner who, in turn, uses that money to plant one tree. At the end of the quarter, we make a donation based on sales [inaudible 00:29:25] and I think that's next month, and I'm actually going to meet with them and get my hands dirty and plant some trees.

But yeah, I mean, part of the reason of doing that is obviously money's important, but it's not the thing that fuels me. When I started this, I was like, "Let's do something that makes a difference." And there's a few tiers. It's A, it actually fucking works and helps people. Awesome. And then B, it's like we're actually giving back. And yeah, it feels good, man. I don't feel like some kind of greedy capitalist. I feel like a dude trying to do good in the world and using my skill set to make good things happen.

I think our customers like that, and that's why they choose us, because we're not some faceless synthetic cannabinoid company just trying to squeeze out profits and do everything. We're giving back, and yeah, it's not profits first here.

Sean McCormick: Did you guys start ... and I'm saying you guys. Do you have partners and investors and how big is your team?

Alon Shabo: I got one full-time guy in LA, and the rest right now, contractors, partners, et cetera. I'm actually going to Colorado in about two weeks to meet with our suppliers, hang out with them. We're doing R&D on a new product which is, again, back on sleep. It's like a melatonin chamomile CBD mix.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, dude. That sounds great.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to kind of check on the status of that and experiment with it for myself.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Did you start the company with the intention to partner with a NPO like One Tree Planted? Was that in the fabric of the origin?

Alon Shabo: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think that's part of the formula for success today, is just the landscape's shifting. People choose to do business with legit transparent companies who are doing good in the world. But yeah, it was all dreamed up before. I mean, this was kind of my dream company, before I even discovered that it would be a CBD company. I was like, "I want to do something that aligns with my values, that helps people, that we can give back, and that has a potential for massive impact."

Sean McCormick: This is checking all the boxes, isn't it?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. It feels good, man.

Sean McCormick: How long did it take to settle on this formula? How long was the process of testing and testing and R&D and all that?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, it was probably about a year. That process looked like first learning about the industry, and avoiding the rampant bullshit, and kind of figuring out how things work. Then it was kind of vetting all the different suppliers and growers and seeing who's legit, and kind of tracking down their customers and getting samples of their products and testing them. Then there was independently testing samples we received. Then it went to a production run. Then it went to independently testing that. Now we have a product we're happy with. It was about a year.

Sean McCormick: I bet that was a long year.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. It was funny, man.

Sean McCormick: Well, any time that you create something that you're passionate about, that you're waiting on somebody else to get back to you on, man, those are long days. I know how that goes.

Alon Shabo: I know. You just got to sleep, and you're one day closer.

Sean McCormick: Get some rest, man. It's okay. Get some rest.

Alon Shabo: Deep breath.

Sean McCormick: What should everybody know about CBD products? Think of a frequently asked question. I mean, not somebody that's totally naive to CBD products, but what's a common misconception about these sorts of products?

Alon Shabo: Like you said, does it get you high? It's not marijuana. Some people are taking it trying to get a crazy mood change and that, and it's not that. The mind state altering thing is you might feel more relaxed while feeling alert and upbeat at the same time. Yeah. I think that's the big thing. I think most people are ... they're curious about CBD. That's what I'm seeing. And they're just kind of waiting for that push to try it. That's a big part of our mission, is education, and also reversing risk for people, being like, "Dude, just try this. If you don't like it, keep the bottle. We'll refund you. All good."

Sean McCormick: Again, accountability and transparency, right? I mean, it's such a basic thing now, but we as smart consumers just expect that now, right? Don't we?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Sean McCormick: Right? Do the right thing. If I don't like it, you know, can I get my money back? Being accountable. I'm curious about ... Well, I'll just tell you. I was over with Ben, the co-founder of Natural Stacks, and we were having a little get-together over at his house. He was cooking for everybody, and he was cooking this pasta dish. As he's serving it, he said, "I put some CBD in your guys' dinner." And the mix of reactions at the table was really interesting, because there was six of us, and I think three of us were like, "Oh, nice. Thank you, dude." And two of us were like, "You did what?" And one of the persons was like, "Dude, I can't eat this. I can't even eat this now."

And it's like, "Well, you're with the Natural Stacks team, so it's not like you have to worry about doing anything sort of fringe," for the people in the middle that were like, "I have some questions about that." But it was interesting to see how people reacted to that, but that's what he did. He just put six droppers full in the pasta sauce.

Do you know other people who do that, too? Do they add it to their food? I'm just picturing the different applications of this and when and how. Is that a common thing?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, I've seen a girl put it in her morning ... what does she have? She has like some coconut probiotic yogurt. I've seen some pictures of that. I drink it in my chamomile tea at night, sometimes in my coffee. Then I guess the most common thing is people are putting it in their smoothies and protein shakes. This is the first time I've heard of cooking with it, and I'm not sure if the heat might affect the CBD, but that's awesome. And at least you get some organic peppermint in there.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. That would be an interesting question, if the heat does affect it or neutralize. I don't know. How often and how much do you use it? I'm curious. It's your stuff. I know that you kind of mentioned a little bit before that it's just sort of on demand, it's kind of depending on whether or not ... an average day, how do you use it?

Alon Shabo: The most ritualized way I use it is at night before bed, probably every night, about two droppers. During the day, it's as needed. If I get pissed off and stressed out, if something on my Shopify store is not working and my developers are being retarded, I'll just take a few droppers and take a deep breath, and I'll be like, "Oh, this is trivial. It's not a big deal."

But that's what helps me the most, is when I have that ... and I think I'm genetically predisposed to stress and anger, which is why I got into fitness and meditation in the first place, because I've seen my father and how bad it affected his life. So yeah, maybe two, three times a week during days, just depending on the day, and probably almost every night. Some nights I don't take it if I don't feel like I need it.

Sean McCormick: I think that the efficacy ... Not to get too lost in the weeds on epigenetics or genetics and stuff like that, but I think that now we all are looking for things that ... especially this audience, is looking for tools, products, techniques that will help them live their best possible life, and the products, of course, that we carry, especially the Serotonin Brain Food and the GABA Brain Food that we carry, are specifically for people who are overstressed and overanxious that need to relax. And serotonin is all about a positive mood, and you can take that in the morning. You can take that during the day.

I tend to use it in the afternoon if I've had a crazy morning, my employees are being silly or a conversation didn't go well, or whatever. Or as a coach, as a life coach, I'm dealing with other people's stuff every single day. Each one of my sessions, I'm helping people work through a challenge, right? And the products that we carry are an excellent assist in me in my meditation practice, in my flotation therapy practice, in my breathwork, the stuff that I can do normally to chill out and still keep an even keel.

If more people knew that there is a product that works really well ... I mean, your guys' reviews are great. Again, the product tastes good. It's been effective for me in getting quality sleep the last couple of nights since I've been experimenting with it. I think if people knew that there was a natural alternative to antianxiety medication and even muscle relaxers and stuff like that, I think that it's ... How do we get the word out, Alon? How do we reach ... Well, I guess we're doing that right now. But how can we educate people? How do you educate people?

Alon Shabo: I just try to reverse the risk on people. I mean, I educate them. The jury's out on that it's good. It's overwhelmingly positive. I mean, all the studies related to cannabis are all fairly new, but nothing shows anything negative, I mean, CBD at least. But I think it starts with one person at a time, man. We're focused on one customer at a time. I mean, we're a fairly new company, so I'm still reaching out to every single customer. I'm talking to them. When they end up being not only repeat customers, but end up telling friends and family, I think that's what it is.

I think the general consensus, not just for CBD but a lot of just adoption of new products that aren't really ... that are just new, right, I think the big thing is people may know it's good, and they've heard about it, and they've seen ... and that's kind of where CBD is at. Even CNN did a special on CBD a few years ago. People are kind of waiting for that human, that credible push, so whether that's an influencer with an audience that trusts them, or just the mom who tried CBD and her life changed and now she's putting other moms on it. We're just focused on one person at a time. That's kind of our philosophy.

Everyone we do business with is super important to us, and me and a few people on my team are personally reaching out to people and trying to have conversations to see and learn from them, because this thing is super variable. I'm still learning every day about it.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. That's cool. Do you think that there's still some demonization around it?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Sean McCormick: And is it ignorance or ... I mean, and we touched on it a little earlier, but do you think that this is because we've been told that any sort of hemp or cannabis product is bad, and we're just going with that? Is that it?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, it's that, and refusal to change, and also ambiguous legal policies that probably have a lot to do with business and money. Yeah, it's a mix of things.

Sean McCormick: Let's talk about the legal issue and the accessibility, because people can purchase your product online, and then you ship it. What are the legal implications of all that?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. I mean, it's ambiguous, and a lot of it's up to interpretation. A lot of CBD businesses will say, "Yeah, this is fully legal, and we can ship to 50 states," which we can, but I've been told it's up to interpretation on the federal landscape. It's kind of weird. So yeah, I mean, there was a farm bill in 2014 that said industrial hemp is legal to grow and sell, so most people are riding off that bill passed by Barack Obama.

But when I had a conversation with some legal person, they said like federally it's up to interpretation, but I'm seeing ... There's a grocery chain in Colorado called Lucky's. I believe they're like 30, 40 stores. They carry a whole line of CBD products. I was like if a company this big, with so much to lose, is taking a positive step in the direction, I'll follow their footsteps, and I'm pretty sure they know something. Yeah.

I think people like Jeff Sessions and that, they have bigger problems to deal with. We have an opioid crisis, and I think at a press conference, I don't know if it was him or someone on his cabinet, they said CBD is helping people get off opioids, so obviously-

Sean McCormick: Duh.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. Yeah.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, duh. When it comes to the future of this industry, do you think five, or two years from now, that there's going to be a wide array of CBD products available at the supermarket, and it's just going to be like any other sort of common vitamin or supplement?

Alon Shabo: Absolutely, yeah.

Sean McCormick: Yeah?

Alon Shabo: Yeah. I mean, I'm seeing coffee shops now and health shops adding CBD to coffee, or adding CBD to smoothies. But that's definitely where I see it going, with a whole variety of uses. Some people like CBD lotions for pain, which works extremely well. But yeah, definitely. I mean, going into this, I don't consider us a cannabis company, and we're actually trying to avoid that kind of stigma. We're more of just a general health, this is good for you.

So yeah, I mean, I think that's the future, not just of CBD but of the cannabis space in general. You're going to see more cannabis wines, and I think alcohol's popularity is going down a bit, which is why you see these big alcohol companies investing in marijuana firms now. It's an interesting shift that's going on, for sure, and I think once federal regulations clear up, you'll see a floodgates of crazy things happening in the space.

Sean McCormick: Talk a little bit more about, because I know you're talking about ... But tell a little bit more about the alcohol switch, the companies that are investing in cannabis agencies and stuff.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of money going from big alcohol companies to big marijuana companies. I don't have the specific names and transactions on mind, but you can do a quick Google search. I think it's a shift in consumer preferences. The world is just becoming more healthy, right? People are, I don't know ... alcohol's cool. I like my wine. But it makes you hungover. It makes you fat. It makes you drunk drive. It makes you make questionable decisions. It makes you wake up with weird strangers. I don't know.

I think the future is functional marijuana, so it's like the corporate person might have a energy drink infused with THC that accelerates whatever, the fitness buff ... When I was younger, I used to smoke before I went to the gym, and I used to have some of the best workouts of my life. Yeah, I think the future of it is kind of functional stuff, and that's also what we're trying to do.

We're in R&D with a new sleep product, which is just designed, here, take this to sleep. Here, take this if you're stressed out. I think that's just the future, not just for cannabis but just kind of every kind of supplement-type product.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, I think for the folks that are dealing with some tough stuff in their life, or highly stressed, which all of us are because of push notifications, and because Netflix is a thing, it's so easy to be distracted, and it's so easy to be anxious, and with depression as the number one mental illness on the planet, with a high comorbidity rate between depression and anxiety, like if you got one, you more likely than not have the other, I think that people are finally coming around to alternative healing, alternative modalities, alternative health.

Because that's the space that I'm in, I'm just waiting for people to come around, right, waiting for them to do their own research and accept new lines of products, again, like the brain food line that we carry, flotation therapy, Wim Hof breathwork, sauna, cold plunge, these sorts of tools and techniques that this audience, that our listeners, are up to date on.

Cannabis is such a broad spectrum of potential products, not to mention hempcrete, where you could build your house with a sustainable product that's basically concrete made of hemp that's resistant to bugs, and mold, and decay. I think people don't realize the application and the efficacy of hemp-based products, clothes, paper, I mean, you name it, oils. You can run a car on hemp.

And I think that people are opening up to the possibility, because the proof is in the pudding. If it works, then you should keep doing it. And if there are no side effects, if the side effects include being more chill, then you should definitely explore it. You should definitely take a look at the wider range of applicable products. It's exciting to me to hear that you're already looking at additional products. I think people know chamomile is relaxing to you. And what was the other ingredient in the other one that you're working on?

Alon Shabo: Melatonin.

Sean McCormick: Melatonin, right. I mean, I think people know that there are supplements that they can take to help them sleep, and I think that we're just so close from your company blowing up, right, because people are understanding it at a deeper level, and it works. Any other anecdotes from people that have been using it and really loving it? Do you have a favorite customer?

Alon Shabo: That's like asking a grandma who's the favorite grandkid, right?

Sean McCormick: Yeah, you're right, it's not fair, but still.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. No, I like all the things that come in. The most common things are someone who's stressed out at work, someone who needs to sleep better. I think one of my favorites is probably the dad who has anger problems, and he takes it to chill out, and now his kids like being around him, because I grew up with kind of a angry, stressed out father, so that one kind of hit home. I was like, "Fuck, yeah."

Sean McCormick: Yeah. How long does it take to kick in, usually, for most people?

Alon Shabo: It's variable. Most people should feel results in 10 to 15 minutes, but some people's systems don't feel anything, and in that case you need to take it consistently for at least probably like four, five days, and then it kind of takes hold. I've had plenty of customers who they're like, "This shit doesn't work. Give me a refund." I'm like, "Yeah, I'll process a refund for you," but I'm like, "Please," I'm like, "Did you try it consistently?" They're like, "No, I tried it once." I'm like, "Okay, try it for about three days around the same time, around the same does. Sometimes it kind of needs to accumulate in your body. I think that's what's going on."

Sean McCormick: Yeah, that makes sense.

Alon Shabo: Yeah, it's super variable. I'm learning every day. It has a lot to do with your biochemistry, so it's up to experimentation, but for most people, one dropper is kind of like the minimum recommended dose. That's about 8.3 milligrams of CBD in our Good Vibes bottles. Yeah, you should feel it in like 10 to 15 minutes. If you take it during the day, I've been told ... and I feel the same way, it's kind of like an alert chill. You're not sedated and slow. Your mind is still working. You're just a bit more relaxed. It kind of promotes clearer thinking for me.

But then I've had someone also take it during the day who was like, "It made me too relaxed, and I'm not good on my business calls." I'm like, "Okay, take it at night."

Sean McCormick: Right, or take a half a dropper.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. It's definitely up to experimentation, and it's very subjective based on the person. I'm still learning every day with every email that comes in what it's doing for people, which has been super interesting.

Sean McCormick: How are you guys getting the word ... I mean, besides going on podcasts, how are you guys getting the word out to people? What's your best way to reach people?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, we have a few influencers that are talking, and people trust them, and our customers are doing word of mouth, so that's a really good sign for me. We haven't really turned on the big marketing beast. We launched three months ago. We're kind of past the product validation. Now we're just making sure our customers are super happy and seeing that they're buying again and telling their friends, and that's a fucking amazing sign for us, that that's happening.

It's not like, "Oh, this was cool, thanks." It was like, "Oh, this is cool. I need six bottles now."

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Yeah. I need it, and I need to give it to my co-workers, and I need to give it to my mother, and my brother, and my cousin. Everybody should be-

Alon Shabo: Yeah.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, taking that.

Alon Shabo: That's what's happening, and we feel pretty good about this, which is why any of your listeners who are curious about this, they can take a bottle risk free. If they don't like it, it doesn't do anything for them, drop me an email personally or drop the company an email, and you'll be refunded.

Sean McCormick: The perfect opportunity to sort of give us your contact information. Tell us where people can find you, where they can buy the product, where they can get a hold of you, all that good stuff.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. The site is, G-E-T-S-A-B-A-I-D-E-E, dot com. I'm sure that'll be listed on this page somewhere.

Sean McCormick: Oh, yeah.

Alon Shabo: Yeah, and me personally, I like to connect with people on Facebook, so, front slash, S-H-A-B-O. That's my last name. Add me. Send me a message. We can chat there. Yeah, those are the two best ways. If you want to email me, just go on the website and you'll find my email on there.

Sean McCormick: As an entrepreneur in the cannabis industry, what do you think would help the industry as a whole? How do we, how do the listeners, how can I personally, how do other people that are interested in the advocacy aspect, how can they help businesses ... besides buying the products, how can they help these businesses succeed? What's one thing everybody can do?

Alon Shabo: They can share their experience. Everyone has a voice today, whether that's Facebook, email, even just telling your co-worker in person, we're all just so interconnected that that one positive reinforcement goes a long way. I mean, for us, that looks like please leave a review, please tell people about it, et cetera.

I mean, there's a big lack of trust in this space. It's half due to no transparency and a lot of questionable companies coming out, and also the other half is just the demonization of marijuana, cannabis, hemp. It's kind of a mix between those two. But it just starts with every person. That's our philosophy.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Individual after individual explaining why they like it, and telling their friends. What do people ... what should they expect with this product and with other ... I mean, you can't really speak for other cannabis products. What other cannabis products do you like?

Alon Shabo: I just take the CBD right now.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. You're not taking anything else?

Alon Shabo: No, not at the moment. Sometimes I enjoy a nice rolled up blunt, which is kind of like a cigar with marijuana in it, for special occasions, but yeah, I used to smoke a lot. I've cut my consumption of smoking and THC down significantly, just because I think personally I'm prone to some, I don't know, psychiatric issues, and I could feel them kind of being exposed when I have too much THC, so I kind of got off it, but then CBD seems to be helping with what I have, which is depression, basically.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate that honesty. I took one dropper about, now, probably about a half an hour ago, and what I've noticed, and this is now ... I guess this would be day three, and I haven't used it during the day yet, but since we're ... when in Rome, so I took a dropper. What I can tell is that spot kind of in the back of your neck, it's at the top of your back and the bottom of your neck, relaxed. You and I are both in this flow state where we're having a conversation, and thinking on our toes and stuff like that, and what I've noticed is that in the back of my neck tension has decreased. My shoulders have kind of gone down and back. I don't feel foggy whatsoever.

I don't have what I think some people would expect to take from taking a product like this, again, because you said it's a stimulant a couple of times. But I don't feel like, "Oh, man, I'm so relaxed. I don't want to do anything." It's like I feel a bodily release but I'm still super dialed and sharp. It's a really nice effect.

Alon Shabo: It's an upbeat kind of relaxant, kind of how I'd expect Floyd Mayweather, how he's so cool on the big night type thing. You're ready for anything, but you're just naturally ... kind of feel better. I don't know. I'm not sure how to explain it. It's like a very cool confidence, but it doesn't make you ... one of the stereotypes is lazy or so chilled out, man, where you're spaced out, and you're like, "Bro, I just want to watch TV." No, it's not like that at all. Actually, I write better on CBD because my thoughts are clearer, not just maybe because it reduces anxiety and clutter and stuff like that.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. It's almost like a little bit of a flow state. It's almost like the things kind of align. This thing comes in, this thing comes in, and this sort of overall wellness that I get from some of the Natural Stacks products, especially the Serotonin Brain Food during the day. It's positive. It's relaxed without being sluggish or dull.

Alon Shabo: It's very interesting to see how those two products might work together in synergy, because CBD works on your serotonin in your brain as well. That's part of your endocannabinoid system, and that's part of the reason CBD's kind of anti-psychosis. It's because it has effects on your serotonin. Super interesting, man. We're probably years away from really knowing how they interact and what's going on. But so far the jury ... everything's good.

I don't try to speak too conclusive, because everything is fairly new, and the research is fairly new. Most of what I say is just based on conversations with my customers or my own personal experience. But the scientific literature is overwhelmingly positive. I just don't cite it too much because everything's kind of fairly new, and there are no crazy studies.

Actually, I think I have one. Let me see if I can pull it up. Actually, this is a big pharma study. I don't know if I want to talk about it. Yeah.

Sean McCormick: No problem.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. Basically, it took a synthetic CBD, and they followed 2,000 patients with cancer, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and other really painful things that screw up your sleep, and they reported a very good sleep quality with no tolerance or need for dosage increases. This was a four-year study on 2,000 people with those things. Over 50% of them got sleep, but that's a synthetic CBD, and it's a big pharma study, so there's a lot of biases there.

Sean McCormick: Sure. At least it's a step in the right direction.

Alon Shabo: Yeah. One thing that's pretty crazy in the space is a lot of companies are selling synthetic CBD, from China or from their kitchen sink, I'm not sure, and there's been people going to the emergency room with crazy issues because they're inhaling or ingesting this synthetic CBD which is kind of causing havoc for people. That's probably the biggest dangerous thing in this space.

Sean McCormick: What should people do to avoid that? Are there key words that they should look for?

Alon Shabo: I mean, you do want an organically grown CBD. But no, there's a few good companies in the space, and I think people can see who's good and who's [inaudible 01:00:30]. I mean, the number one thing is are things independently lab tested. But also in this space there's forgery going on. I've experienced that firsthand. Buyer beware, caveat emptor. I'm not sure what it is.

Sean McCormick: Just do your research beforehand.

Alon Shabo: Do your research, exactly.

Sean McCormick: Know what you're putting in your body. I feel like I want to talk about the economics of the thing. I feel like I want to talk about the potential. There's all these different ways that we can go, but we're kind of running up toward the end of our conversation. What's the future? What's the future for you? You're doing R&D on a more specific melatonin and chamomile product. Do you see a daytime CBD coming out? Where do you see the future of CBD oil going?

Alon Shabo: We're just headed towards functional stuff. If you're saying future future, CBD just kind of fortifies every product, right? I mean, I think it might be just an ingredient that everybody wants all the time, maybe like how coffee is so widely necessary. I mean, with us, we're just going towards functional stuff. A CBD post-workout supplement that helps with your tension and muscle recovery, for example. That's the future future, like functional cannabis, basically.

Sean McCormick: Do you see a potential where people gravitate towards either certain products or certain strains of CBD that work best with them? Is that a thing?

Alon Shabo: There aren't strains like marijuana, where there are like Granddaddy Kush and things like that, but I mean, the growers I met with each kind of had their own plants that they developed, so yeah, I think people may develop preferences based on that. Yeah.

Our growers, for example, they have these clones of this plant. I think it was like a 15 or 20-year process where they just kept growing and making it better and better and better and better, so that the plant is like the lowest in THC, the highest in CBD, the most terpenes. Yeah, there's definitely preferences there, especially with something as subjective as this. One thing may not work for someone, and it's same with smoking marijuana. Different strains have dramatically different effects for people. It's preferences.

Sean McCormick: That's kind of what I'm thinking. If you know that you like a 50-50 ... from a smokeable standpoint, you like a 50-50- hybrid, or you like an indica-heavy, indica-dominant edible or a smokeable or something like that, I feel like that level of intricacy and attention to detail and strain and so forth is probably going to extend into CBDs, where people say, "Okay, I like this. I like this product. I like SabaiDee because it just agrees with me more that this CBD oil company or that CBD salve or rub or whatever. It just works better for me, or I like it better, or this one makes me too sleep too quick, or this one makes me ..." Anyway, I feel like that level of discernment between the different products is probably coming, which is great for you, because then you can have a larger range of products, like you said, like a post-workout recovery, a sleep, a mood, a whatever.

I think it's really exciting, and even though people and growers and scientists smarter than you or I have been developing this stuff for a long, long time, we still don't really know the potential of it. We're just getting started. Can you speak to that just a little bit?

Alon Shabo: We're just getting started, man. I don't need to say anything else. I mean, back in the day, cannabis was medicinal. This is back in the day. Even the US Government required farmers to grow hemp during ... I think it was World War I or II, I'm not exactly sure. But I think it was some time in the '30s when Reefer Madness and government regulations happened, and there have been some studies and some movement on it.

For example, CBD was discovered in the '60s, the compound itself. But it's been all pretty quiet. Studies haven't been very giant and conclusive because of these regulations. It's hard to research the stuff. And now we're in a new age where not just states in the US but countries are legalizing one after the other. I think a lot are following the US's lead on that. I think the landscape's headed to, "Okay. This is actually good for you. We were wrong." That'll just open more research and more products and more utility and all these things. But like you said, we're just getting started, man.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. I definitely can envision the ubiquity. Like you said, people just like coffee. They know where it's from, how it's grown, dark roast, light roast. They use it every day. Caffeine is the mass fuel for so many millions and millions and millions, and probably billions, of people.

Alon Shabo: This company would not exist without caffeine.

Sean McCormick: Likewise. Right. Likewise. I mean, yeah. I would be less effective. And I see it, too. I see the gravitation toward CBD products as everybody will be using this because it just makes sense to, because it's effective, and it's a great alternative to all these other things. I'm really excited, man. I'm really excited for the potential and for the potential of your product. The fact that you're only three months in, and you're cooking like you are, that's awesome. And I'm really looking forward to where this thing is going.

As we sort of take this thing home, can you tell people again where they can get a hold of you, where they can purchase? Of course, this podcast is going to be accompanied by notes and so forth. You got a money back guarantee. Just give us all the details.

Alon Shabo: Yep. Our website is, G-E-T-S-A-B-A-I-D-E-E, dot com. If you're listening, I think Ben, the co-founder, has a discount code for you guys, which will probably be on this page. Like I said, try the product. If you don't like it, get your money back. You can personally reach me. I like Facebook. I like to see people's faces., front slash, S-H-A-B-O. I'm this shirtless due climbing a mountain in Nepal. Send me a message. Let's chat. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the notes will have it. I don't think anyone actually listens and is writing down the website and stuff.

Sean McCormick: It's true.

Alon Shabo: But I mean, just to piggyback on what you were saying before that, and we keep getting off track, which is pretty cool ... Hang on. Who's calling me? Ignore. Sorry. I think cannabis is being widely accepted because it's offsetting the damages of modern life, which is, like I said, workaholics, unnatural lights. Most people are sitting in artificial light all day, slouched, just Netflix, push notifications. Our brains are not used to this stuff. Cannabis is helping healing that.

I think that's why mental illness is at the highest it's ever been. It's just due to all this unnatural stuff. I know we're both aligned with our mission to help people live more optimal and healthier and happier, which is why I'm honored to be speaking with you guys.

Sean McCormick: Well, it's great to have you, Alon. I like your product. Ben likes your product. We're excited to see where you guys are headed.

Alon Shabo: Awesome, man.

Sean McCormick: That'll do it for this episode of The OPP. Alon, thanks for joining us.


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