COMMON SENSE KETO - OPP #177

By Sean McCormick

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"I don't believe in cheat days whatsoever," said today's OPP guest Jack McAnespy. Who at over 300lbs discovered the Ketogenic diet, and within 6 months lost over 125lbs. Jack stays killing it, and has since started the Facebook group "Common Sense Keto," amassing over 125,000 members. Managing a Facebook group of this size is like a full time job, but Jack loves being able to help people with Keto, just as Keto helped him. In this podcast Jack shares his advice for those interested in starting the Keto diet, discusses his experience with Fruitarianism, and shares some of his most important life lessons he has learned over the last year. 

 P.S. First time purchasers from Natural Stacks can get 15% off their order by using the code MAC15 at checkout.  Check out our Mood Stack if you agree that feeling good means keeping your body healthy and your mind at peace.

 

Episode Outline

  • Intro [3:40]
  • What’s in Jack’s body? [4:30 ]
  • Why did Jack start being Keto? [5:38]
  • The Fruitarianism Experiment [9:32]
  • Starting Common Sense Keto [17:38]
  • Cheat days? [30:51]
  • Support for Common Sense Keto  [37:05]
  • Effects of a Keto Diet [45:45]
  • Advice to starting a successful Facebook Group  [51:46]
  • Who does Jack look up to? [53:30]
  • Old nutrition tendencies [57:18]
  • Most important lesson learned in the last year [63:21]
  • Joining Common Sense Keto Facebook Group [66:27]
  • Outro [67:00]

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Sean McCormick: You're listening to the Optimal Performance Podcast. The OPP is brought to you by Natural Stacks makers of 100% natural and open source supplements, designed to help you live optimal. For more information on how to build optimal, mental, and physical performance into your life, go to naturalstacks.com.

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Today's episode of the Optimal Performance Podcast we're joined by Jack McAnespy. Jack is a pretty interesting guy. He has started a Facebook group that went from zero to a 100,000 members in six months, and it's still growing. It's now to a 125,000 members, and it's called Common Sense Keto. Common Sense Keto sort of demystifies ketogenic eating, goes over recipes, talks about his take on fasting. He's curated this online community on Facebook that is really responsive, really involved, and it's helped a lot of people in their life.

Jack's Genesis story toward the keto dietary approach is a pretty cool story, too where he lost a ton of weight and he's kept it off, and he's happy and smart, and it's a pretty cool podcast. So without further ado, we'll jump in with Jack McAnespy for Common Sense Keto. You're listening to the Optimal Performance Podcast. I'm your host Sean McCormick. It's the OPP. I'm a performance coach, a wellness entrepreneur, a blogger, a speaker, a biohacker, and it's my privilege to bring to you the leading experts in the field of performance. So let's dig right in.

We're joined by Jack McAnespy. He's an avid self-experimenter. Trust me, I've read the blog, a chronic podcast binger, a blogger, and a certified CrossFit coach. Jack is also a ketogenic nutrition coach and the creator of Common Sense Keto Facebook Group, which has grown to over a 125,000 members in a very short period of time. His main focus is teaching people that chronic calorie restriction is not only unhealthy but also unnecessary in helping those that can no longer lose weight on their own, get past their stalls, and have better hormone regulation, which is important I think for all of us. Jack, thanks for joining us.

Jack McAnespy: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. So like I do with every episode, I start by asking our guest what they have in their body today. So what's in that body of yours, Jack?

Jack McAnespy: It's a great day to ask me because it's absolutely a 100% not keto. I'm doing an experiment as I always do and it happens to be a raw vegan, fruitarian diet. So I have in me right now four dates, a peach, a banana, a can of organic black beans, and I think that's it.

Sean McCormick: How about coffee or any supplements or vitamins?

Jack McAnespy: Nothing since this morning. During this I'm only taking just a B complex because there's no B's in vegetarian food. So that's really all I'm taking right now, and I had one cup of coffee this morning so it was like about 10 hours ago.

Sean McCormick: Okay. So this is going to be an interesting one, you know. Jack is a unique ... Jack, I'm talking to the all the listeners. But you're a unique guy and I'm really glad that we connected because I started combing through your blog, and we're going to get to your experiment right now. But I'm really curious to hear your Genesis story. How was it that you've decided that you were going to be strict keto and what was your results? Where did this come from?

Jack McAnespy: Well, it started really early on, like I was always a skinny kid when I had a ... My parents are separated, they've been since I was four or five. I was always a skinny kid until I moved with my father in about the fifth grade. He's a truck driver and just ate garbage nonstop, so I gained like 90 pounds in nine months. I was overweight ever since then. 2005-ish, it just got really out of control. I got with my wife, and I got comfy, and not really caring so much, and before I realized it I was 300 pounds. So I actually had gone to the doctor and looked up getting gastric bypass.

Before I did that, I saw an Atkins documentary and it just intrigued me. So I went and bought the book and I read it cover to cover in a couple of days. I started doing the induction phase, which is keto essentially, and they don't really talk about it, but it's 20 grams of carbs or less, and protein, and fats. So I did that and I was just doing so well on it. Atkin says to add carbs back in and I'm like that doesn't make any sense. Why would I add carbs back in when I'm just killing it? Because I was dropping like 10 pounds a week, 14 pounds a week. Within six months, I lost like 125 pounds.

Sean McCormick: Wow.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. So it was just ... Then I just stayed that way. So I never went up in carbs, I've always been, you know, it's been 13, 14 years I've been 20 grams or less.

Sean McCormick: Wow.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. Then I didn't do any working out either. I didn't even go to the gym, like I barely set foot in a gym up until that point. Even during the weight loss I didn't. I started walking and running after I lost the weight, and then I started doing CrossFit shortly after that.

Sean McCormick: Wow. Did you, you know, did you experience that, you know, from rapid weight loss did you have some of the skin issues that come along with that sort of rapid loss?

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, I still do. I still have a fair amount around my midsection. I'm actually going at the end of this and getting skin surgery.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Got to itch, got to do.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. So I've been waiting for 10 years.

Sean McCormick: Wow. Man, I mean, it's funny because, you know, as we've been talking and corresponding leading up to this, we change when we're forced to. It's like we just we're fed up, and we got to try something new and you found something that really worked, that really worked for your body, and you stuck with it, and now you said 20 grams or less a day for 15 years.

Jack McAnespy: 13, almost 14 years, yeah.

Sean McCormick: That's a long time.

Jack McAnespy: I mean I did breaks and I did other things. Like I've always been into experimenting before I understood any of it. I was always trying like if something came out for example, I got into CrossFit never being in a Paleo. So I tried Paleo and, you know, that didn't work for me. It was too high in carbs and there was no focus on it. I knew what works for me so I always go back.

Then I went through a period of trying the zone, I tried Mark Sisson's program, you know, I tried everything on the planet. Eat To Perform, you know, they were big in the CrossFit guys, and they're like you'll get better by doing this, and I just never saw the benefit of it. It just never helped me in any way, shape, or form. So I always knew what would so I just constantly went back to it.

Sean McCormick: As I do in this podcast, we're going to jump around quite a bit. Tell us about your blog. It's so detailed and so fascinating. Tell us about your experiment in fruitarianism or modified fruitarianism, as I suppose it is.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. Well, so I listened to so many podcasts and I happen to cross this one where it was talking about a fruitarian who, he was an author, runner, and he claimed to eat ... Actually, he was on with Sanjay Gupta, I think, and he said that he was eating 25 or they said he was eating 25 pounds of vegetation a day. Now, like that's crazy. This guy must be just, you know, in the bathroom all day long. Like that's what a horse would eat, is like 25 pounds of food and the horses are 1,100 pounds, right? So this 125-pound guy says he's eating 25 pounds of fruits. I'm like this is intriguing, and I got to look into this.

So I found another podcast where he was clarifying that and he said, “No, no. It's not 25 pounds, it's 50 pounds.” So this is blowing my mind. I have to figure out what's going on. So I started entering foods into my tracker and you know, seeing how much this would give me, and 20 pounds was like 5,000 calories and 1,400 grams of carbs and like 1,000 grams of sugar. Like just I couldn't. There's no way I can even wrap my head around that. So I said how can I do this but like put it into a realistic perspective?

I thought for sure I was going to gain weight regardless so I picked 2,100 calories, which is a 500, 600-calorie deficit for me, and I said I'll do this. I don't like the idea of lectins at all so I kind of built it around a little lectin diet, and I just picked foods that worked for me. So it's like I wasn't doing beans the first week. I was doing just spirulina algae, [inaudible 00:11:22] parts. I don't like any processed stuff so no protein powders and then just fruit. I was doing kale the first week because kale is high in protein.

I did that after the first week and I dropped weight and I'm already at my rock bottom weight like I don't get lighter than I was. I was at 205 and then I walked around at 210, 215 most of the time. I was already low from an experiment I did prior to that. I just started dropping weight. Today actually, this is day nine, and I'm down six pounds from start, which is already low. So I haven't been this weight in two years and that was after a five or six-day fast. So I mean there's downsides to it. There's like there's downsides obviously.

Sean McCormick: Let's talk about those downsides. What are the downsides?

Jack McAnespy: I'm in the bathroom all day long.

Sean McCormick: How many times? I mean, let's get detailed.

Jack McAnespy: So three times around breakfast. So once right before breakfast, once right after breakfast within an hour, and then once more about an hour later, and then usually another three to four times throughout the day.

Sean McCormick: And because we're all grownups and we can be an adult, we can be adults about this, tell us a little bit about the consistency of those movements.

Jack McAnespy: I would love to tell you. It's actually it's fine. I mean the first few days it was weird because it was like food coming out. It was like seeing the food that I was eating coming out but after nine days it's pretty much, it looks normal like nothing crazy, but there's a lot of it, that's all.

Sean McCormick: So what's the goal? I mean, what's the, you know, besides just curiosity where do you want to take this?

Jack McAnespy: I wanted to see if I would gain weight, first of all because my last thing that I did was eating 5,000 calories for 21 days on a ketogenic diet to see if I would gain weight, which I did not. I gained nothing. That was the second time I've done it. So, I wanted to see what would happen if I ate half of that or less than half of that of all fruit. I thought for sure just the sugar was going to make me gain weight. I thought I was positive. So the fact that I didn't, blew my mind. I couldn't believe it. So I started just digging into what was going on.

I kind of think that I get a better picture from this, which is great because that's the idea behind experimentation. I really think like a lot of things, the vegans will say is the fat you eat is the fat you wear. I kind of think that's true but only in context. You can't do high carb, high fat because you're going to gain ... You're going to spike your insulin constantly, and you're going to store that fat. But if you're eating super low fat there's nothing to store. You're going to be using that fat as fast as you store it. Especially for a keto person that's burning fat like crazy anyway, you're just going to use up that little bit of fat that you're eating.

They're kind of polar opposites, low carb and low fat, but they both kind of work the same way. In a high fat scenario, you build up ketones. In a high carb scenario, you build up blood sugar. So my blood sugar is chronically high, it's been up ever since I started this. But then on the other spectrum when I do high fat, my ketones are always high. Just which one is better in the long run? I think I know the answer to that but, you know, they're kind of the same just opposite spectrums. They both work, you can do them both, just what is your long-term goal and which one's healthier in the long term. I think I got off track from the negative-

Sean McCormick: No. It's perfect. Every bit of these details is fascinating. How do you feel?

Jack McAnespy: I don't feel anywhere near as good as I do when I have my ketones high. I always have high ketones. I sit at between, you know, two-and-a-half to six-and-a-half ketones daily, that's where I sit. I feel like my brain is on fire 24/7, I'm just always firing. But this way, I'm still okay, I'm not stupid or anything. My brain still works but it's just I don't have that sharpness and that clarity, or the alertness. If I don't eat every three hours, I'm sleeping.

Sean McCormick: Your energy levels plummet?

Jack McAnespy: Oh, yeah. I can tell when my blood sugar drops and I'm just ready to doze off. So that I hate. The gym workouts are way different. So I CrossFit every day and so, I have a really good baseline of what my performance should be like. I noticed a huge difference. The explosiveness is not much better, it's a little bit better maybe but not anything that I would even care about. But my endurance is just terrible, like by the end of the workout I'm done. I'm completely done. But on keto I can just keep going and going and going and there's no end.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, and that's because you're burning off that glucose, using that glucose. Then when you're out, you're out.

Jack McAnespy: Right.

Sean McCormick: Right?

Jack McAnespy: Then I do eventually like I usually I'll go for a run especially in the summertime after my workout, and I can feel the fat starting to burn at that point so it gets a little bit better. Sorry, just let me close my Facebook here, it's dinging on me.

Sean McCormick: Ding.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. Okay. There we go. That's, you know, it's my ADHD catching on me. I can't have anything on the background going on.

Sean McCormick: Join the club. Join the club. Well, let's talk about that. Because I do want to talk about ... I'm fascinated by one's ability to grow a Facebook group and to cultivate a community around something as individual as sort of dietary. There's so many different approaches to diet, and there's movements, and there's people that get on the Paleo bandwagon or the primal bandwagon or whatever. You know, because I'm hoping that the members of your group are going to hear this and be inspired, and really dig deep into who it is you are, and how it is you approach your diet in your life. Like what was the motivator in your background in starting a 125-person Facebook group? How does that work?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I never had the intention to do it really. I was just on Facebook groups like everybody else initially, and I would tell my story, and people would just start asking me, you know, how did you do this, how to do this, and you know, can you help me? What can you do for me? Can you show me how to do it? That led me to actually ... I was on a big huge Facebook group and then I kind of asked them, you know, because they had coaches, so can I be a coach for you?

By that time, I had already actually gone and taken a couple nutrition certifications just for my own knowledge essentially. I worked with them for a couple months and just you know, people's philosophies sometimes don't mix. I'll do one thing that they don't like, and they do things that I don't like, and there's just ... Especially when they had a big group of coaches and so, some personalities just don't match. So they decided that I wasn't really suiting their philosophy so they wanted to part ways with me. So I just decided that I would go on my own and create my own group.

But I had such a following in that group that so many people followed me. Within, you know, the first six months my group was open I had a 100,000 people in it. It's only been 10 months now that it's been open, and it's at a 125, so it slowed down but it was growing at a thousand a day for the longest time. Just people were pumping in and pumping in like crazy. I started off with, you know, September 2nd I started and, you know, by the end of the month I had almost 30,000 people.

Sean McCormick: That's from you just telling your story and educating people, right? I mean it comes from your own personal life path.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, well, people heard my story and they liked it, and then they tell other people, and it just snowballed like crazy.

Sean McCormick: Is that like a part-time job being admin and moderating a group like that?

Jack McAnespy: It's almost a full-time job.

Sean McCormick: It must be.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. I have 15 people that help me. I have 15 moderators that they're just, you know, they were members of my group. Some of them were my previous clients, some of them are still my clients, and they're passionate about it so they want to help and you know, I've kind of given them my philosophy, and I've given them I've given them a guideline to follow, and answers to questions. They're kind of just my eyes and ears when I can't be there. But I make an effort to be in the group, you know, at least five, six hours a day just answering questions and ...

Sean McCormick: That's a full-time job.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah.

Sean McCormick: For sure. So, let's talk a little bit about what differentiates your approach to keto. Because common sense, keto, it rings true. Like what is it that you think is different ... It's a little different approach, what makes common sense keto different than anything else?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I get a lot of people saying that my approach isn't actually common sense. But the way I see it, I look at all these different strategies and all these different studies, and I just I seem to have a way to pick through them and find what is common sense about it, and apply them together and like ... Every study has things that are right and things that are wrong. You just got to parse them apart and find out what is and what isn't. Then I apply them in what I think is a common sense way. But my biggest thing is just we know that it doesn't work to starve yourself. We know this, it's well established people lose, yeah, they lose lots of weight, sure they do. But how many of them keep it off? None of them do. That's why Weight Watchers has a 2% success rate.

Sean McCormick: Is that what it is?

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, it's less than 2%. My mother's been a member of Weight Watchers for 50 years. She still doesn't have her weight under control. I guess that's the way it works, you just lose it, you screw your metabolism, and then you just say, you know, screw this and stop eating that way and gain it all back. So you don't have to starve yourself to lose weight. You just have to eat the right foods. That's all it's about, eat the right things at the right times, and the rest will take care of itself. Is it going to be the fastest way to lose weight? No. But does it have to be the fastest? Is that necessary? I don't think it is. I think you're better off to be healthy to have your hormones in order.

You know, the amount of people, the amount of women especially in my group that have thyroid issues is unbelievable. Every single one of them has been dieting their whole life. They've lost a 100 pounds, and just gain a 100 pounds. Lost 50, gained 60, and that's what causes it. It's just they're constantly starving themselves and just ruining their bodies. So I don't think any of that is necessary, and I wish I could get to these people earlier in their life and let them know that before they do all this stuff because once you're there, it's hard to get back.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, so what are some of the things ... I know it's different for everybody, you know. How do people, you know, that maybe new to your group or new to keto or new to Common Sense Keto, what can they do to sort of figure out what their baseline is and then not starve themselves and eat the right things at the right time? It's obviously variable from person to person, but what are some sort of common truths?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I set things pretty strict. I mean I'm not one of those groups that I just say, you know, "Do your thing and, you know, feel your own body and do what you do." I kind of lay down some pretty strict rules like I'm not a meal skipper, I'm not a faster. I've experimented with fasting for an entire year, and I even tried it on all my clients to see if it worked for them because some people have limited success with it than it's worth a shot. So I'm three meals a day guy, you know. I'm big in the circadian rhythms, and been reading a lot about, you know, how if you eat breakfast it's easier to control your body weight, it regulates your insulin sensitivity. So I think breakfast is the most important meal of the day and I stress that.

So my number one thing for people is eat three meals, don't snack. Obviously, get rid of the easy stuff first. But I got pretty clear guidelines in the group on, you know, how many calories you're supposed to eat because I don't want them to eat too little and that's a problem. I'd rather them eat too much than too little. You know, here's the foods that I approve of, you know. I encourage everyone to eat whatever they want but you know, I give them guidelines. If they want to follow what I tell them, fantastic. I'm not going to chew you out for not doing it if that's what you want to do but, you know, I set the guidelines pretty clear.

So I give them formulas on how to figure out all that stuff so we've got a pretty clear guide in place that helps them. Then the admins do it nonstop. So somebody will come on, I'm this weight, I'm this height, I work out this many times a day, what should I do? The admins are there and they just crank it out quick and they, here's your calories, here's your fat macro, here's you're this, do that. You know, people, some people have success with it right away and some people don't. Everybody's different in that aspect, and we try to work with that but that's pretty much the starting point.

Sean McCormick: Fascinating. So it's, I mean it's not only is it a group to share and get support and learn but also there's coaching happening like in real time all the time.

Jack McAnespy: All the time, 24/7, yeah. Like we do as much as we can to help people in the basic ways. Like when I do coaching one-on-one I get way more in-depth with people, but I can't do that obviously at 225,000 people. So I give them basics, the basic guidelines, and some general stuff that will work for most people. Then if they really want to dive deep into, well, the things like I do and experimenting then I offer that as a service.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Have you ever experimented with exogenous ketones, esters, and salts?

Jack McAnespy: I've tried them myself. Now I'm not an athlete by any way, shape, or form so I didn't ... I'm hardcore Keto like I'm always in ketosis so I don't really-

Sean McCormick: I have to stop you. You are an athlete. If you do CrossFit every damn day, Jack, you're an athlete. Quit ... Own it, dude. Own it.

Jack McAnespy: Amateur athlete, okay.

Sean McCormick: Yeah.

Jack McAnespy: But I don't do any ... Like I can see how it could work for somebody who's a professional athlete, and they want to do some glucose, and they want to do all that mixing and stuff, but for me, it didn't work. It was probably the worst thing I've ever done in my life. I had the worst workouts, I felt the worst, and it was just too much. I'm already at high ketone so what do I need more ketones for?

I think the average person, they just don't need it. An athlete, I could see the benefit from it. Somebody who has epilepsy and needs constant stable levels, and they're having trouble with their diet, they could probably benefit from it. But I think the average person is just not needed. I've never had a client that I had trouble getting into ketosis or maintaining ketosis with. As long as they keep their electrolytes up and they're, you know, they're not starving themselves they seem to do fine, I don’t really see the need a bit too much.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. It's interesting because I think about what my experience has been. I've been doing probably 80-20 keto for probably five years.

Jack McAnespy: Wow.

Sean McCormick: I was pretty diligent about it. I do intermittent fast, I don't eat until like it's 2:30 Pacific Standard Time, and I haven't had anything but two cups of coffee, one with butter one without. For me, it works. Now, that said, I'll eat when we're done, and then I will be a slug for kind of the rest of the day. I need to be honest, like I'll break my fast I'll have a can of smoked oysters and some kimchi and some macadamia nuts.

If I'm still hungry I might do like a kale shake or something like that as I get to toward dinner. But I find it interesting. One thing that I found, you know, because I'm thinking about breakfast and the comment about like not skipping breakfast, you know. It reminds me of, you know, the slow carbs, sort of Tim Ferriss slow carb, you know, have was it, 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking up?

Jack McAnespy: I'm not familiar with Tim Ferris.

Sean McCormick: Yes.

Jack McAnespy: It was maybe one podcast of his but he's not somebody I've been into very much. I don't really know much about his program.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. For our body, it's 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking up to like stimulate your metabolism, to stave off sort of hunger pangs and stuff and that's sounds similar to kind of what you're doing. But then of course, I look at the pictures on your blog and you've got a plate full of cantaloupe and avocados and some sauce over there. Obviously, you're experimenting but it's fascinating to me. How long is this experiment going to go for you?

Jack McAnespy: It's going to be 15 days just out of necessity. I was only going to do seven but it just got so intriguing after day seven that I just wanted to see how much further I could push it. Then I decided I want to go for blood tests after. So I can only get in for the blood test on Tuesday so I'm going to continue through Monday, which make it 15 days. I already predict what I'm going to see on the test. I can almost predict it like I'm a fortune teller. My LDL is going to cut in half, my fasting blood glucose is going to be a 105 and my triglycerides are going to be about 140. I can almost see it like it's in a crystal ball.

Sean McCormick: That's funny. I mean you've made your way in this life over the course of this last time where you've really focused on diet and done certifications and stuff. I mean, you're the guy. You really should be tinkering and testing and trying out to see what works for you, and to know that you kind of know what your body is going to yield as far as test results ahead of time is just is a testament to how closely you're tracking. In the last, whatever, 13 that you've been doing keto, have you had moments where you're like, "You know what? Screw it. I'm gonna eat 12 donuts because I want to. I'm just done, I'm sick of this I'm just gonna drink a two-liter of Mountain Dew and 12 donuts and ... " I mean, have you ever gotten there?

Jack McAnespy: Of course, yeah. Who hasn't? It's very rare but I mean, there's just times where I'm just you know, everybody else's eating junk I'm just gonna do it, too. But immediately afterwards regret it and I feel terrible, not only mentally but physically. I just, it's like it'll be another year until I do it type of thing, you know. But over the course of the year I forget that lesson and I have to learn it again, right?

Sean McCormick: Yeah, shocking the system a little bit.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah.

Sean McCormick: Do you believe in cheat days?

Jack McAnespy: I do not believe in cheat days, whatsoever. Especially there's so many people that have food addictions and they just they can't make it a cheat day, right? It shouldn't be a cheat day, it should be a cheat meal if you are gonna do it, but I can't do that. I can't have a cheat meal. It's gonna be a cheat day and it will be a cheat week, like it's ... If I get, like I'll have a piece of pie and then I'll go looking for more pie. So I really don't believe in cheat days.

For anybody especially ... I don't even need to lose weight, but people trying to lose weight, they can't do that, they just they're gonna spiral out of control and then it could be six months before they can get back in control again, and they've regained everything they worked for. I think people lose the desire to have cheat days once they've been keto for long enough, I think it kind of go, your taste buds change. You just don't have the desire.

Sean McCormick: Totally true. I mean, yeah, I mean, once you do ... You know, you mentioned Mark Sisson he does like the sort of sugar detox and the metabolism reset diet, it's like a 28-day thing, you know. You totally do, like once you break that sugar habit, you know, where you need glucose every three hours or in some cases every 15 minutes just to feel, you know, feel like you're awake.  It's totally true. You know, I've lost the taste for sweet stuff, too over the last couple of years. Now, again, like it kind of brings to another question, when is it the hardest to stay disciplined? Do you ever go out to dinner?

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, I do, but I still usually stick to keto when I go out to dinner, you know, on steak and veggies or something. But the hardest times are around holidays obviously. I have two huge families, so my wife side is a huge family and I have a huge family, and they're constantly shoving food in your face all the time, like here, you know. My family is horrible because this is their idea of a salad. So they have this thing called simple salad, it's essentially pistachio jello pudding, cream cheese, sugar, and something else, I think whipped cream, like that's salad to my family.

Sean McCormick: No. No.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, like it's crazy, it's horrible.

Sean McCormick: We've all eaten that at Thanksgiving, that's where, you know, that's where I ... That's would ... There's either ...

Jack McAnespy: You had that?

Sean McCormick: Yeah, totally.

Jack McAnespy: Oh, my god. I thought it was just my family who do that.

Sean McCormick: No, it's either the ... Oh, man. It's either the orange jello with pretzel, crumbled up pretzels on the top, or it's the pistachio. It's a dessert basically, and that's ...

Jack McAnespy: Cream, pistachio, whipped cream, like just pudding.

Sean McCormick: Oh, my gosh. Are you the black sheep in the family?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I mean, my whole family tries to constantly stay in shape, like I think they do it out of guilt from looking at me. But no, they're definitely not the same as me, like they're not really into it. My mother really tries, like wants to be into it and she's very a smart lady. She was controlling my ADHD from the time I was five, when I was diagnosed, she was doing it naturally with food. There was no Google back then, this was 25 years ago, 35 years ago.

So she was controlling me with food like not allowing me sugar, artificial colors, preservatives, it was just like it was all natural foods. She didn't allow me anything because if I had the slightest bit of artificial color or flavor or sugar, I was banging my head off the wall and climbing to the ceiling. Then when I did get out of control rather than put me on a drug, she would set me down with a strong cup of black coffee, and that was enough to calm me down.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, that's the adverse effect of high dose caffeine, for sure.

Jack McAnespy: Like she had to read books to figure this out, she didn't have Google. I think that's kind of where I get some of it from. She was intuitive enough to do that when I was a kid. But she's always had her whole life, my whole family as weight problems their whole life. So she's just been, like I said, 40 years, 50 years she's been member of Weight Watchers.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Do they have prism where you're at in Canada, Northeast Canada?

Jack McAnespy: No, I don't, no.

Sean McCormick: Prism, it's a similar, it's targeted at women. Yeah, it's counting calories and stuff like that, yeah. It's funny because there's, and I think that this probably gets to the sort of the themes here for this conversation is we need human support, even if it's on Facebook, use it. But we need people in our lives that are doing something that works that they're willing to share, and the habits that we generate around food, around activity like those habits that we develop in our life when we get adulthood those are hard to break.

If you grew up having a bowl of ice cream after dinner every single night, like I did, that's hard to unlearn, there's almost like this epigenetic effect of poor dietary choices that it's tough to undo from where you're at, you know, moderating and admitting and creating networks for people to help grow in their lives. How much, you know, encouragement and positive affirmation goes along with running a Facebook group like you do?

Jack McAnespy: You mean the affirmation for myself?

Sean McCormick: No, that you're giving to others, like, how much is support?

Jack McAnespy: Oh, it's constant, like I said it's five to six hours a day on Facebook just, you know, helping people. There's always issues, you know, I'm doing this, I'm not losing, why? You know, we take the time to try to troubleshoot as much as we can and, you know, I think that's part of the reason it grew so fast is because we're very supportive like that, and we really give a little bit extra. We're not just plug in things to try to make a buck, like I obviously make some money off personal coaching but I don't advertise it on the side very much.

People just filter into me and it's enough to get me by, and enough to keep available so I can be on the Facebook page. But I don't do any product placement, there's nothing I sell, and I gave away so much free advice on the page itself, sort of the admins and the moderators as just important, at least they can get people through the door. If they can't push themselves a little bit further then, you know, there is always further support for that. But it's important to do at least get them in the door and show them there is a way.

Sean McCormick: What's the most common ... I want to know the answer, it's willpower. What's the hardest part?

Jack McAnespy: No, I don't think willpower is the issue. I mean, it is somewhat in the beginning but after you get into it, the willpower thing kind of goes out the door. With my method I don't make you have to struggle and starve, like I let you eat, you can eat as probably more than you wanna eat. Most people that come to me are eating 1,200 calories a day and that's not sustainable. It's not doable, it's not healthy. That's why people are so sick now. I want women to eat a minimum of 1,800 calories. I want men to eat a minimum of 2,200 calories. It's not normal to eat less in that.

50 years ago men were eating an average of 3,000 calories a day and they were skinny, so it's not necessary to starve yourself like that. So when people come in that's the actual hardest thing is to get them to actually eat more food. They're so scared, they're just terrified to eat more food, and that's the most common thing I hear, "I'm scared to death to eat this way." It's so much food, but, and I honestly, that's why I did my couple of 5,000 calorie challenges to show people that you don't have to be scared to eat this much food. I'm not gonna lose weight on 5,000 calories but I'm also not gaining weight.

Sean McCormick: Tell us about those experiments. Lay that out for us.

Jack McAnespy: They're both about the same. I just, you know, I pack 5,000 calories in the meal every day for 21 days, and then I weigh myself daily. I check my body fat daily. I keep monitoring my ketones and my blood glucose, see what's going on. You know, the weight goes up and down, it doesn't stay flat the whole time through. Nobody ever does. Like right now I go up and down every once in a while. But at the end of the whole thing I was at 0.8 of a pound after 21 days of eating fiber and calories. My macros were at least 80% fat, if not higher, 85 probably.

Sean McCormick: I'm curious about your sort of dietary choices when you're not experimenting with seven cantaloupes for breakfast.

Jack McAnespy: Which is rare.

Sean McCormick: Right. But like where did you get those calories? Are you doing like a dozen avocados and two big rib eyes or ... ?

Jack McAnespy: No. I don't eat, so I don't do a lot of protein. My typical protein intake like on a regular day when I do 2,500 cals, which is about my normal, my protein is like eight grams. My carbs are 10 grams maybe. So when I was doing the challenge I was probably in a range of 450 grams of fat. I think around a 125 to 150 grams of protein, and maybe 40, 50 grams of carbs. But it was mostly fiber carbs, but I also count fiber as part of my carbs. I don't do the net carb thing, it's total for me or nothing. I mean, I had to change it up a lot throughout the whole thing because you get really tired of certain foods. I started off with doing butter and hamburger and you know, just every kind of fatty thing I can think of. I was drinking olive oil for a little bit and I just couldn't do-

Sean McCormick: What?

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. I couldn't do that. So I switched it up to make it like fat shakes with heavy whipping cream, and cream cheese. I don't think it was healthy for me in any way, shape, or form, and I wouldn't do that kind of stuff in real life but it was just an experiment of getting the fat in and the calories in. I actually, the first time I did it I tested my ... I did a bunch of blood test afterwards and they were seriously crazy. My LDL was four times a normal person's LDL. But my triglycerides were okay and my HDL was good but I still, I'm not a believer that LDL is really a marker for anything. I think it's an energy transport system. I don't believe any of that stuff. But still they have it four times as high as a normal person. Probably there may be something wrong with that.

Sean McCormick: That's a bit unusual. So what were you eating?

Jack McAnespy: Just like heavy whipping cream and nuts.

Sean McCormick: Nuts?

Jack McAnespy: You know, some fatty meats. I would do maybe an avocado or two a day but I was trying to keep the carbs a little bit lower so I stayed away from that because I mean, it's mostly fiber but again, I do the total carbs, not the fiber net thing. Like, honestly, I have it all in my diary on MyFitnessPal, what I ate. But honestly, I think I'm blocking it out a little bit because it wasn't a fun experience doing 5,000 calories a day. It was awful, it was torture. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. But it's just, again, I did it to show people you don't have to be scared to eat a normal days' worth of food.

To ask a 250-pound man to eat 2,500, 2,600 calories, that's not abnormal. You should be able to eat that even on a standard diet you should be ... A man that big should be able to eat 2,500 calories and not gain weight. The women are really the hard ... Men do it, men are okay really okay with it. It's the women that have really hard time with it, they just they've been bashing their heads all along. You got to starve yourself, you got to eat 1,200 calories.  It's just you tell them they got to eat 2,000 calories and they almost lose their mind. So it was for them, you know, I can eat 5,000. I even had two women do it. Two women eat 5,000 calories within the group for 21 days, and one of them lost 15 pounds eating 5,000 calories for 21 days. Does that blow your mind or what? Because it blew my mind, I didn't expect it, but it happened.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, that does blow my mind. I mean, I ... Wow.

Jack McAnespy: I don't even think I can explain why it happened.

Sean McCormick: 15 pounds in 28 days on 5,000 calories a day.

Jack McAnespy: 21 days.

Sean McCormick: 21 days.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. Now a little backstory, she did it with me twice actually, this one.  The first time she did it she was a 139 pounds. She had no weight to lose, she had been stalled at a 139 pounds for nine months. Over the 21 days she broke her stall and lost two pounds. The second time she did it she had quit smoking, went off keto, gained 40 pounds, and lost 15 pounds in the 21 days doing 5,000 calories of keto. She chronicled that all as well. She has pictures, she was posting on the group every day her weight. It was pretty phenomenal.

Sean McCormick: Yeah, I'm scrolling down to the April 10th entry in the commonsenseketogenics.com on your blog. Coach Jax, 5,000-calorie challenge.  You don't have to east less, you just have to eat right.

Jack McAnespy: That's right.

Sean McCormick: What are some other sort of ... Because our listeners are gonna be lock step with all of this. Nobody is listening, it's like, "I've never heard about this, this is crazy. I don't believe it," like they're with it. They're tracking really closely.

Jack McAnespy: They do, yeah.

Sean McCormick: So what are some other sort of maybe uncommon or rarely talked about other sort of secondary and tertiary effects of eating keto that are beneficial for people in your experience?

Jack McAnespy: Geez, I don't even know if it's ... It's not even really, I mean, weight loss is a secondary effect as far as I'm concerned. The primary thing is one is brain function. You know, my grandfather and my uncle just passed a year ago from Alzheimer's, or dementia, severe. So my grandfather is the most interesting. He spent his entire life eating ... He was the guy that would eat the fat off everybody's steak. So he was always eating high fat his whole life. He was always real thin, always healthy. He lived in his own until he was 96. His wife passed at 96 and he went to live in a seniors facility, and within two years he was demented and dead.

Sean McCormick: Oh, my goodness.

Jack McAnespy: The food that he would be eating every time we went there it was just garbage. It was constant sugar, constant nonstop, just no good. I'm totally convinced that he had this probably some signs of it before he went in the home a little bit but it just pushed him over the edge.

Sean McCormick: Wow. Yeah, I mean-

Jack McAnespy: Within two years, gone.

Sean McCormick: Oh, my goodness, I mean, yeah, there could be environmental fact ... You know, if there were some signs and forgetfulness sort of ... 96, if there's forgetfulness or if there's, you know, losing track of what you're talking or whatever, like that can be hormonal, can be environmental, you know, it can be a lot of different things. But if your diet is dialed, and you're high fat, and you're lean, and if you go from that to, you know, cereal for breakfast and fettuccine alfredo ...

Jack McAnespy: Cereal, porridge, toast, like the breakfast was just muffin, like no content to it. Not even low fat, it was high fat, high carb all the time, nonstop. So just the worst and the worst. It's not even like he went from zero to dead in two years, it was a progression, it was clear. Like within three months of him being there, he was really, he was a different person, and at six months he was even worst. The entire last year of his life he was totally incoherent. So it wasn't like he was day one he was fine and then he dropped dead on, you know, two years later. It was a clear progression. 

My uncle was only, he was 70. He passed away when he was 75 of the same thing. But that's kind of like a generational thing, you know, that my grandfather had less exposure to it, to all the bad food. Then my uncle did, so he had more exposure so he went sooner but he was also not that guy that would eat the fat off people's steak. He was the guy that was eating pie all the time and you know, so his wife was a fantastic cook, and she was just cooking sugar for him nonstop. So, you know, and that's the difference was 23 years of life span between, but they both went the same way, identical.

Sean McCormick: Wow.

Jack McAnespy: So that's the number one thing for me besides weight loss. Weight loss is fantastic, that's great. Being able to maintain your physique and all this stuff, that's fine. But the mental, cognitive, and the long-term life span, and having your brain be able to function properly when you're in your 90s, that's really for me the number one benefit. Besides, hormone regulation like stop all these people, you know, being hypothyroid and you know, having their hair all fall out. That's a big thing that I see on the side, too, people are, they come to me and they're losing their hair in fist fulls. It's just, it's malnutrition. 

You can't get all your nutrition in 1,200-calorie stage. You can't do it no matter what you do, no matter what you're eating for 1,200 calories. I think keto is even worse because if you're eating 1,200 calories and you're maybe eating a whole lot of plant matter, you might be getting a little bit more nutrition, than if you're eating keto with a little plant matter. Well, you can't even get protein in 1,200 calories a day. You're getting almost nothing. But the women that their hair is just coming out in their hands in clumps, that's a big thing. Usually within, you know, six to eight weeks of eating adequately their hair is growing back. Those things are great besides weight loss. Weight loss is great but those things are the real powerful things.

Sean McCormick: Well said, well said. Absolutely. Yeah, we all wanna be as sharp as we can for as long as we can, you know, we wanna stay active. Man, that is, you know, it really brings into focus the work that you do, you know, the five or six hours on Facebook helping people, you know, when somebody comes to you and their hair is falling out. That's a hard thing to do deal with to, you know, to land on your Facebook group and engage with your people and engage with you, and get some guidance. To be able to change someone's life like that just by telling your story and learning and educating at the same time, like that must feel really good, Jack. That's a big deal, man.

Jack McAnespy: I can't even tell you the amount of ... Like every day I'll get a message, probably a message from someone just, you know, saying thank you for, you know, "My hair is falling out and now it's growing back, you know, thank you so much." My mental fortitude is back to where it used to be, you know, wherever it might be for that date, it makes you feel so good, and it makes everything worthwhile. It makes you want to stay on Facebook for five, six, seven, eight hours a day just because it's gratifying. It's deeply gratifying just to know that you've helped someone.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. What sort of advice would you give to someone who's interested in starting a Facebook group?

Jack McAnespy: Use the name keto. Put keto in it, it seems to be really hot right now. It seems to grow pretty quickly. But besides realistically, I mean, that will only get you so far. You have a message, have a plan in place, you know, something that makes you stand out from everybody else, and some reason for you to be there, and just be a supportive and mass present as you can and just support the people to join the group. That's, if you have something that draws people in like the diet thing is so visceral for people all the time, all the women especially that they're having problems with their hair falling out, that is huge for women. I mean, I couldn't imagine being ... Not that I have the best hair in the world but I'm a man, it's okay for me.

I couldn't imagine being a poor woman and just having your hair falling out in clumps. For women to come to a page and have other women there that are experiencing the same thing, and just be able to communicate with them and see that some people are able to reverse it as, you know, it's going to draw people in. They're gonna tell people, and they're gonna tell people, it's just gonna snowball. The message is important besides having the name keto. You got to have something that will, you know, resonate with people. I guess I found whatever that is which is yay for me.

Sean McCormick: No, you sure did, man. You sure did. I mean, that sort of growth for any sort of group that's just monumental. Who do you look up to?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I discussed it earlier. I think probably my number one hero is my mom, like she, in the day and age when people, in information was impossible to find and we didn't live in the big city, we lived in a small town. I'm from a town of like 600 people. She was able to find a way to treat something wrong with her child without the internet. How do you do that? I don't know how to do anything without internet, would you? She was able to figure out how to keep me in check and not have me climb in the walls, this little five-year-old, ADHD hyperactive kid.

She kept me thin all the years that I lived with her. I was fed, I was active, I was a normal kid up until the time when I started eating terrible food. She was able to do that on her own without, you know, without outside guidance, without the easy life that we have today. She's like that blows my mind every time I think about it. I can't believe she was able to do that math in that time. Besides that my biggest people I look up to are people like I don't know if you've heard of Dave Filman, you must have heard of Dave Filman. 

Sean McCormick: Yeah.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. Like him and I have been on the phone several times just talking through scenarios and things like he's like me, he wasn't a diet guy. He's an engineer and he just was able to see something outside the box and he's not afraid to test and experiment on himself. Then he shares it so freely with everybody. I didn't know him from a hole in the ground but I just messaged him one day and he's like, "yeah, let's get on the call." You know, that's amazing for somebody to take their time out of their day, and he's a busy guy but he'll do it at the drop of a hat, like it's great.

People like Gary Tobbs and Nino Tackels, they're the people that are gonna put this nutrition thing into the next stratosphere. They're amazing people and they just they put everything into it that they possibly can. Like Nino with her nutrition coalition thing like that's amazing, that's awesome. So I love those people, they are my favorite people in the world.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. We had her on the podcast a couple of episodes ago, and she's super down to earth, too. You know, she's just calling BS, she's calling BS on it. She sort of found her way into this world, you know, tearing down the food pyramid, explaining why it's like the way it is, and what do you know, follow the money. What do you know, like there's a reason why you're being told to eat corn and grain, and yeah, I'm totally with you.

I think that, you know, because in my world, I tend to ... My area of focus is less about tracking and data points and analytics, that's not my strong suit. So what I try to, what I gravitate more towards is how do I feel, how's my performance. How am I sleeping? Do I feel recovered? I feel present. Can I exercise? Can I meditate? But for the folks that can dig down and understand things from a really detailed point of view, like you do so, so well, like you're so detail-oriented to make ... If we're gonna look back in 10 or 15 years, hopefully sooner than that, hopefully it's more like five but we're gonna look back.

Jack McAnespy: Please.

Sean McCormick: Yeah.  We're gonna look back and say, you know, "What were we doing? We're just poisoning ourselves. We were advocating this, the consumption of nutrient-depleted, fake, plastic, gross food that made us sick and caused tax payers massive amounts of money." Like the diabetes epidemic, you know, they're saying that it's gonna ... I don't know the percentage because I'm gonna get in trouble for saying it, but something, some massive percentage of-

Jack McAnespy: It's a lot, yeah.

Sean McCormick: It's a lot of our healthcare dollars are gonna go to treating diabetics. Both of my parents are pre-diabetic. They struggle with their weight and only as much as I can, I try to share and I try to ... But I try to share what I know about nutrition and supplementation, because obviously I'm a giant advocate of getting the vitamins and minerals that we can't get from our food through supplementation. But they're indoctrinated by the old, you know, the sort of baby boomer generation of, well, you're supposed to eat cereal for breakfast and you're kind of, you should have grains just about with every meal, it's just it's a long road to home. 

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. I'm glad you said about your parents being pre-diabetic. My father has been diabetic insulin dependent for 25 years. My brother has been diabetic for 10 years, my grandmother had both of her legs chopped off and died of diabetic complications when she was 80. So it's just prevalent and the fact ... That was part of my motivation for doing what I did was I didn't wanna be in my dad's position, you know, and that's so many people today. How many people do you know that have diabetes? You know at least 10 I'm sure.

Sean McCormick: Yeah.

Jack McAnespy: Everybody knows 10 people that are diabetic or pre-diabetic. It's just insane. It seems so simple, seems so simple to exit.

Sean McCormick: It does, right? It does. It does seem simple, and with access to information that we have now, you know, the opposite of what your mom did by giving you coffee at a young age to have the adverse effect like I only know that because you know, my father's behaviorist and works with kids with ADHD and autism that, you know, high does caffeine helps but your mom had to find that out.  Now, we have access to all these resources, and I think maybe that's part of the two that. We have access to so many resources and they're so many diet plans, there's just almost like a deluge of information, it's like what do I trust? Which one do I pick? I throw a dart at a dartboard that has seven different dietary approaches and I pick one, and I try it, and I yoyo, and then I'm tired and cranky at the end of it, and just want to eat donuts.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah. So maybe we're just lucky. Maybe we threw the dart and hit the right one, and everybody else just hasn't got there yet.

Sean McCormick: Could be. Yeah, man. I mean I've got two small ... What's that?

Jack McAnespy: So, thank God we hit the right one.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Yeah. Does your shirt say 'some of my best friends are ketones'?

Jack McAnespy: Yes. Yeah, it does.

Sean McCormick: I didn't want to ask because our listeners obviously can't see that, but it's a killer. Yeah, I've got two small kids at home, and it's tough you know, like they get cereal. They get cereal on Saturday mornings. That's when they get it. It's once a week and they wake up, and they're stoked about it. They're excited, but then you know, I feel guilty because I'm reinforcing this food as celebration, food as comfort, food as fun, a colorful box with a tiger on it with its full of sweet things that go with the big glass of milk. Then I watch them, I watch them bounce off the walls for two hours. Then crash in the middle of the day. Now that I'm coming clean on how my fatherhood's going, shit.

Jack McAnespy: That's normal though. I mean I had the same thing. I never had any kids of my own but my wife had kids when I met her and I raised them. They, for the last 13 years, they ate what I ate. But they still ate their own foods, too. They still had, you know, I'd have a box of cereal in the house and they would eat it sometimes. But today, they're actually grown in their own today, and they eat primarily mostly like keto. They don't have any problems. They don't want to eat junk food like they do want on occasion go out and eat junk, but they primarily eat well. They kind of eat what what I ate so it'll rub off on them in the long-term, and when they get old enough to figure out that you showed them some good ways hopefully they'll see that and they'll continue on on their own. It'll rub off on them. We don't have to feel guilty about letting that [inaudible 01:02:20].

Sean McCormick: Thanks, man. I'd take that, for pulling me out of that nosedive I was in. I was feeling really sorry for myself for having ... It's even like the Trader Joe's like boogie cereal. It's not post, it's not frosted flakes or Cap'n Crunch.

Jack McAnespy: Is it better though?

Sean McCormick: No, of course, not. No, of course, not. No. Thank you for not letting me get away with that because there is no difference between Tony the tiger and Anthony the tiger. At Trader Joe's it's the same stuff.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, totally, yeah. Anyway, but yeah, I mean and they're not ... I'm sure your kids are [inaudible 01:03:03] either. They don't have to ... A box of cereal once were not a box of cereal, but [inaudible 01:03:08] once a week. See, that would be me, I'd have a box of cereal, but I mean that's not going to kill them when they're young. As long as the majority of the time they're doing it right I mean that's not the end of the world. They're not broken like we are. They don't have to really [inaudible 01:03:22].

Sean McCormick: Right. What's the most important lesson or one really important lesson that you've learned about diet, about people, about anything in the last 12 months?

Jack McAnespy: Well, I guess ... Well, no, that's one of the [inaudible 01:03:46] last 12 months. So 11 months ago I was working in a garage, not even my actual career path. I was it just happened to be that that's the draw of the hat. I was working in a garage. For so many years I've been wishing to do something that mattered and all I had to do was actually say I'm going to do it. I started doing this thing and now today, I'm living the dream. I work out of my house. I spend six hours a day on Facebook. I get to help people everyday.

I mean the big lesson is just don't be so scared of failure that you don't try to do what you love. I think it's better to fail doing what you love than succeed just doing something to pass the time. That's probably number one lesson. Besides that it's don't always get stuck in your own perspective and try things from other people's point of view. This vegan thing is completely blown my mind. I can now see things from two different complete opposite spectrums. They're both valuable.

Sean McCormick: How do you rectify that though eventually? How's ...

Jack McAnespy: I've already rectified it. I mean, for me, it's again like it's the long-term effects. Do I want to constantly glycate myself 24 hours a day? Or do I want to be in a state of ketosis that's anti-inflammatory all day long? So, for me it was easy to rectify. But it is nice. I have a tool in my tool kit now that if I want to drop some weight, I know a way I can possibly do that. Will I do it long-term? Abso-freaking-lutely not, but I know I have it there as a tool kit and I understand something greater than I did before from before I started it.

I never, in a million years, would have ever thought I could eat 500 grams of carbs in a day and lose weight. I'm shocked. It's so very valuable. It completely flew in the face of everything I've believed. Just the fact that I did this blew my mind in the beginning but I've learned a valuable lesson from it, and I can see somebody else's perspective. That is super valuable.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. That is very valuable. It's nice to know. It's nice to surprise yourself and rattle the cage of your own sort of preconceived notions for what your body can do or what other people's bodies can do. If any of our listeners were interested in joining the group or engaging with you, is it as simple as just finding you on Facebook and joining up?

Jack McAnespy: Yeah, you just search for groups, search for common sense keto, and you'll probably get to the popup because somebody's kind of trying to infringe on me a little bit. But there's this called common sense keto group and it's only got like 200 members. So just go for the one that has like the massive amount of members, that'll be us.

Sean McCormick: Yeah. Is there anything, assuming that your group is going to hear this. This is kind of a unique opportunity for you, through spoken word, to share information or to educate or anything. Is there anything that you'd like to say to your group with this sort of podcast opportunity?

Jack McAnespy: There's only my moderators knew that I was doing this whole vegan thing so if anybody from the group is listening, don't do this. Don't do this unless you talk to me first because it could really backfire on you. If you want to try it, by any means try it. But if something bad happens, don't blame it on me. I don't recommend doing it. I'm sorry I didn't tell you all about it prior to coming on the show.

Sean McCormick: That's good. Give them something to talk about. I like it.

Jack McAnespy: Yeah.

Sean McCormick: Well, Jack, I really appreciate your time, man. I like digging dip and seeing how people tick, and your story is fascinating. Your ability to rally people and to share and to grow and to inspire is inspiring for me, and someone who's trying to have as high performance every single day. I've learned a lot from you, and I'm going to continue reading the blog, and I'm going to join the group because there's obviously a lot of great information there. So thanks for joining us today, Jack. I really appreciate it.

Jack McAnespy: I thank you for having me on. Like I said when we're chatting earlier, I'm actually a very shy person so this was out of my comfort zone again. We're just pushing boundaries.

Sean McCormick: Thank you, everyone for listening to this episode of the Optimal Performance Podcast. As always, show notes, links to articles, explanations, and deep dives into the content base in this episode can be found at naturalstacks.com. The Optimal Performance Podcast is a Natural Stacks original. Our executive producers are myself, Sean McCormick, and Tyson Eldridge. The OPP keeps rolling on.

 

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